The Black Plague!
OK, so let me get something straight; if they sit on the same park bench, or even if they swim (not that too many of them can anyway) on the identical section of the OCEAN as you, you might, WHAT, catch something? Slowly set in motion a process that would turn you black too? Pick up their nasty habits; like talking in a very animated manor, having a great sense of rhythm (now that was uncalled for) or speaking loudly to people although you may be close proximity to each other?
Yes, I am very confused and I can never wrap my head around it. Of course, like the old saying goes, you had to be there to know what it was like. You know walk a mile in a man’s shoes (not that the masterminds of Apartheid did a lot of walking at all) blaa, blaa, blaa. So many of them, so few of us, so let’s protect our interests by using any and all mean of mental and physical abuse (let’s not sugar-coat it), so that ‘they’ don’t wake up one day and figure out that if they mobilize against us, sheer numbers alone would work against us and that would be the end of us as a people.
A bit of a heavy way to begin, but there are just some aspects of our controversial history that I still have trouble getting to grips with. I am one of those ‘see the flip side of the coin before you decide’ kind of people. I want to know what inspired the chain of thoughts that ultimately led to such insane laws? I look at children in a playground, watch as they run away from a child that has just ‘let out some unwanted wind’ (how diplomatic), and how they are ostracized for a little while because you don’t want to catch fart germs. Their logic, although loosely following the same rationalization as our past government’s, made far more sense then separating a beach!
Anyways these laws got in the way of friendships. I remember a white friend of mine telling me how she had to travel in separate carriages to her friend. There was her young black friend, not even 11 years of age, having to endure a fairly long train ride alone and afraid, all because of a law that just felt like black and white people shouldn’t even be breathing the same quality air, let alone share a cabin with black people. All activities that were planned had to be more thoroughly thought through than a CIA operation. Like a master chess player, you had factor in what could happen a few moves later, and make sure that you had contingencies in place. We became the dirty little secrets that our friends had. We usually slept over at their houses where we had parties, watched movies or any other activities that could be held at their homes because on their properties, we could be hidden away from those who believed that what we were doing was wrong.
Personally I believe the past is the past. Mistakes were made, not by the youth of my generation, but by the masterminds of Apartheid, those who believed in it and those affected by their negative propaganda. The cycle still continues today, although we are making sure that it spins drastically slower. I am shocked and horrified that we still have an Afrikaner only community, Orania, where they are practicing petty Apartheid by default. There’s a fact that they might find strange, but which in all actuality is true and that is that we can actually learn from each other’s cultures. It’s something that the planet, in this century, understands very well. Surely Orania is on a certain path of becoming a community with the highest level in inbreeding in South Africa, albeit a title they may already have (which would explain a lot)?
So this time I spoke less about how this affected me, because why should it be me, me, and me? I just took you through a journey that might just spark thought or arguments that I would love to hear. This was one of the most baffling aspects of Apartheid rule, and in talking more about it, hopefully I’ll get to know and better understand it, even though it still will not make any sense.
So my challenge to you is what do you have to say?
the Black Panther movement in the 60’s and 70’s in the USA was looking to establish a blacks only state where they could live apart from whites.
Did you know that?
I did not and I found it extremely interesting….
What I have to say will be published soon enough!
What I want to know is, what sort of mind harbours racist thoughts? How is an ‘Oranian’ created?
Good Charlie´s last blog ..Pepper Spray – In the Spirit of Ubuntu
I wasn’t even aware of Orania? Are only Afrikaaners allowed to live there? Lol i’m sounding quite naive here but holy crap i had no idea that places like that still existed in SA.
I’m guessing that an “Orania” is created by a small minded community who are afraid of change.
Karabelo, you SHOULD have trouble getting to grips with apartheid. You’re searching for sense where there is none. There was absolutely no justification for any of it, apart from a massive fear and lack of understanding on the part of its advocates. You could walk to the moon and back in the shoes of those oppressors and you’d still be thinking “but, WHY?”
As for Orania, you actually have to pity these people. Can you imagine being so blinkered in your world view that you actively cut yourself off from the rest of the country? Talk about limiting your horizons. One day that eggshell world will crack and its not going to be pretty…
I have got nothing against Orania or the Oranians, myself.
I don’t have anything against them either. Doesn’t make it right though.
@Carla Nunes
why is it wrong then Carla?
It’s wrong because we are a democracy recently founded upon equal rights for all yet Orania choose to ignore this democracy and ignore the laws of the consituttion that requires everyone to be treated equally. There’s something very wrong with that.
@Carla Nunes
if all have equal rights then why can party A not decide to live up in the middle of the northern cape by themselves if they wish?
Read more about Orania here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orania,_Northern_Cape
Although it is wiki, so you might want to take what you read with a pinch of salt.
I myself am torn about Orania. Is it right to have a place in a democratic country where a small group of people say to the majority of the country’s inhabitants ‘you are not welcome here’? Probably not. But then, reading the wiki, the people there claim that the town was created to preserve their cultural heritage. Is there something wrong with that? Probably not.
Are there places like that in South Africa where Zulu and Xhosa people try to preserve their heritage and do not allow others to set up shop? What would happen if a white family went and plonked themselves down in the middle of the Transkei? Would they be welcomed?
I think Orania has created a problem for itself though – by keeping out people of other races who traditionally did the menial, low income, tasks, they are loosing the traditional cheap work force, aren’t they?
I think it’s unjust to say we are trying to preserve our heritage by disallowing other people to inhabit our town. Why would the heritage be flung to the wayside if an indian or black person were to choose to live there? That’s ridiculous.
@colleen they should perhaps try to claim independance and form their own country if they don’t wish to associate with the rest of the country. We are still all South Africans at the end of the day so what makes them think they can make their own rules?
well if you wish to buy property in the Transkei you may not Carla, as that is all tribal land. You need the permission of the chief to dwell on any land, and if you want to build on his land all the better for him but you will never own what you build and what you work for. I am sure if there were no fiscal benefit in it these chiefs would tell us whiteys to eff off off their lands, too.
Have you read about Orania as yet? You were not previously even aware of it, so how is it your opinions are so strong if they are uninformed.
Deevs the thing with Orania is difficult. Constitutionally we HAVE the right to protect our heritage and that is what they are doing up there. I am not allowed there either, being a rooinek, but I do not think of that exclusion as racist or in any way insulting to me. Why would I suddenly need to up sticks and go and live there, just because they say I cannot? Seems foolishly short sighted to me
*wonders if debate is going to die before it is born*
Protecting your heritage is one thing. Nobody is saying they have anything against that. But to be presumptious in assuming that if someone other than a white person decides to live in your town the culture and heritage will go up in smoke is not logical. That is discriminating based on colour and that’s wrong. That is exactly what apartheid was and we all agreed there was nothing right about that. I have a problem with any person saying you can’t live here because you aren’t black, you aren’t white. It’s archaic. I would expect us to be past this by now.
Oranian? Can you eat it?
ROFL!
D.U.M.B.A.S.S.E.S. I think it’s time to get all my fellow Brakpanites back to Brakpan… to you know… protect our heritage… it was so AWESOME to begin with.
Oooooo oooooo oooooo… NEW YEARS HOEDOWN IN ORANIA… it sounds like a frikken BLAST! woop woop!
“Heritage”: noun: something that comes or belongs to one by reason of birth.
So the Afrikaners of Orania are protecting what is theirs by right of birth? What utter rubbish. South Africans of all races and cultures were born into this country. Everyone with a South African passport has their own right to the land. How does that possibly translate into needing to have no-one other than people you like around you!?
Lets call a spade a spade here: Orania only exists out of extreme intolerance. This community doesn’t want to speak English (or any other language) or be surrounded by ANYONE other than themselves. How incredibly small minded do you get?
Sure, they have found a legal way to justify it (funny, the advocates of Apartheid did the same), but lets not kid ourselves that this is the “preservation” of anything other than pure, undiluted racism.
Well said Michelle!
Michelle is so invited to our Oranian New Year Bash… it is going to be AWESOME
@Michelle
See Michelle I don’t agree with you that Orania is intolerant or racist at all. No one has addressed my question or issue about Transkei either, I see, most conveniently..
Karebelo has replied to me and I asked him to post here, for debate’s sake, but he has not, so here is his reply:
“Black people are very welcoming, so yes if white people went to a very rural area, originally designated for those people by the Apartheid government anyway, they would be very welcome.
This was the basis for the argument of the Orania peeps. They used the ‘homelands’ as a reference, event though they are a ‘leftover’ of Apartheid.”
@colleen
I’m not sure where you get your information on the Black Panthers and a Black only State – have you read the ten point program? I have never heard a mention of them wanting to live separately.
Orania, I have no feelings for – total Apathy for the (as has been said) obvious inbreeding that will be happening.
Transkei, #1 does not exist anymore. You are saying that you may not build or own land their now – does that mean that a “chief” owns the land? If so, then I have the same feelings as Orania – it’s private land and people really may do what they want.
In both cases, they are governed by the laws of South Africa in the end, no matter what they think.
@colleen
Okay, Colleen – I don’t know much about the Transkei, so I’m busy researching it and will come back to you with an opinion.
However, in the meantime, I’d really like you to explain how you don’t find Orania racist or intolerant. You seem like a well educated, well researched person: how do you come to your conclusion?
Transkei does not exist to keep everyone who isn’t white out. That’s the difference.
Also i’m quite sure that if a white person wanted to travel through there they would be allowed to and people might actually engage in a conversation with them. Some Oranians refused to speak to a black photographer who was granted ’special persmission’ to come in by the ‘intellectuals’ as they like to call themselves. Why do you think that is?
@Carla Nunes
they might if they were not being paid….
@ Alex: I heard it on the history channel when I was watching a documentary on the BP’s. I know it does not feature as badly stated in the ten steps they wanted, but they do mention LAND. Anyway I am open to correction.
I was in the Transkei last week and I spoke to people who live there and found out about the no land ownership/lease under auspices and goodwill of the chief, which is how I know about that.
Michelle, I am not sure I am well educated or well researched but thanks for that assessment anyway. Oranians want that space for themselves for the protection and progress of their culture which they feel to be under threat in the New SA. Whether it actually is or actually is not under threat to me is moot, the reason for the place’s existence is to protect that heritage and to live with whom they prefer to live, in the same way you would go to a Thai restaurant but not a steak one if you were a vegetarian. Why race and intolerance has to be thrown in is confusing to me.
Would you LIKE to go and stay in Orania yourself? Do you feel put upon or marginalised because you cannot? Is there ANYONE in South Africa who wants to be there but is not there, or cannot get there? Do you know anyone who has applied and been chucked out? Otherwise this whole attitude is just dog-in-the-manger and baffling to me! We choose who we marry, we choose where we live, we choose with whom we associate, what is the difference with them?
Q: How many townships & villages are there in SA that houses only black people speaking basically one language? A: Many Q:What does Orania take away from you? A: Nothing, everybody who understood apartheid for what it was new that the new South Africa would become less integrated then the old. In the darkest days of apartheid the city streets where fully multiracial, apartheid was above all about political control. Afrikaners where never ever ever capable of existence without cheap black labour, It was the great irony of apartheid. So what they are doing in Orania is the same thing 1000’s of other small minorities do in many other parts of the world. It is this sort of action what is mostly meant with revolutionary politics, LOL just because they are white doesn’t make them conservative. I have read a great book on revolutionary politics in Africa and South America and mostly it is minority tribes doing exactly what they are doing in Orania. It is entirely normal and healthy.
@wherewolf, I don’t agree, what they are doing in Orania is specifically trying to start their own country/state, whatever you call it – they have their own currency – I can guarantee that that is not happening in any other village or township in the entire country.
No it’s not normal nor is it healthy. Nobody is saying they aren’t allowed to live where they want to live and with who they so wish. People obvioulsy like to stick to their own cultures. That is human nature. We feel most comfortable with people we can relate to. The problem i have is their blatant disregard for other people’s cultures. You are not allowed to step foot in their town if you are not an Afrikaaner. I’m sorry but who do they really think they are? I don’t care whether people wish to live there or not. I don’t like the fact that i can’t go somewhere because someone with no authority to dictate, says i can’t. Whether the desire to attend their town is there or not it’s discriminating.
@Colleen,
btw, the Black Panthers wanted land, yes – but I believe it was more about being given reparations, they didn’t necessarily want to have an entire separate area
@Alex. Country it would never be! But they are entitled to try and demographically unite Afrikaners and even (keeping in mind no cheap labor) they get 10% and that is one hell of a IF. They would possibly have a bit of regional autonomy because of what? Wait for it, Democracy. That is why what they are doing makes absolute sense. It is in line with the principles of democracy. How ells can they ever win an election or gain the influence to change policy as a minority? Apartheid is over my friend, the economical advantage Afrikaners had is retracting, and Afrikaner political power is a memory of the past. This is the way of the future for Afrikaners, they would probably exist practicing there culture and language in 3 or 4 small communities. On the Economical side if every black town in Africa practiced the type of community development Orania does, poverty will be eradicated in 5 years, it would be an historical tail. Local currency is a great way to ensure money reruns in your community. If it was your people would you not wish to continue as a people? Again, apartheid is over Afrikaners are no longer responsible for the county they are only responsible for themselves.
Hi Alex, I think we need to look more closely into this BP thing, would be nice to have it clarified.
Well Carla your sole objection to the Orania thing seems to be that you want to go in because you cannot. Hardly the basis for sound argument
@wherewolf
To want to preserve your culture is normal and healthy. To want your children to grow up knowing their roots is normal and healthy. To completely isolate yourself and, more importantly, your children, from the rest of the country is NOT normal and healthy.
Orania takes nothing from me, but what does it take from the future generations who are being born into it? The chance to view South Africa objectively. The chance to interact with other South Africans to create a more unified future.
All this talk about “preserving a culture”: what is it that the Orania culture has to preserve that cannot be preserved while integrated with the rest of SA? Interesting how all other cultures in SA have managed to integrate without forming their own self-governed states.
Self-governance in this case is an excuse not to have to deal with other cultures or races. And that, I’m afraid, remains racism.
Whatever gave you the idea that Orania is isolated, it is not. It is a town with the normal Telephone, tv, internet and roads. It is a town that’s it. The children yes, that is your concern there children, you remind me to peoples objection to interracial marriage, they felt sorry for the children, it is why they westernized the African, they where concerned with the children of other’s and now of course you Michelle are concerned with other peoples children, now that’s unhealthy. Children from Orania, well Michelle, let’s explain, some stay some leave get married come back some don’t etc etc.. They interact with other Afrikaners in the country and yes they travel and meet on equal footing every other culture and race in this country without hate and with the security of existence. Something few other whites in this country can probably say, now I new a white old lady who lived in Hillbrouw, now she was isolated! Why, why why, would they not be able to view SA objectively? That is a dumb statement
“to create a more unified future.” No!!! That is such a nationalist thing to say. We have so many beautiful cultures, races and tribes in this country, I have met great Zulu’s Tswana’s many, many people but they all came from somewhere where there people form an ethnic majority, somewhere in a tribal land or province or somewhere. Except Afrikaners, they are nowhere on the planet an ethnic majority. And the one place where they try, Michelle is bothered with the children!! You remained me of another forum where the topic came up and a Brazilian lady said: “no, we must live in a multicultural world, send police, throw them all in prison” If that would happen Michelle would be happy for the children at least but one cant help but wonder who is then the Nazi’s and who is really the racist.
I am of the impression that Orania WANTS to be isolated, if not, why the currency and own flag. So they are happy to be a part of South Africa when it comes to infrastructure, but they still want their own rules and currency? I don’t get it.
well they DO want to be isolated but no one is a prisoner there Alex. I have always failed to see the problem with Orania.
Maybe we should invite Brendon Huntley to go live in Orania – I’m sure he’ll feel safe there.
It’s sure to be a hell of a lot nicer than Canada.
@Cloudgazer
Warm at least
@colleen
Colleen, my problem is simple, they don’t want to be part of South Africa – it’s a corporation within SA’s borders.
If a single cent of my tax money goes to them, I have a problem.
@Alex It is about recognition and acceptance. It is like I said a minority thing. There current dealings with government, is to get municipal recognition. They want to be recognized as a people and accepted just as they are. With rights as a people, one thing government underestimates is the amount of goodwill that Afrikaners might show for a Volkstaat(some sort of regional recognition) doesn’t have to be big just something, it is about the security of existence (it’s an ethnic thing). Your taxmoney?? ha-ha-ha-ha They pay tax, everybody in Orania pais tax, they dont get a cent of it back and Alex is concerned with his tax money ha-ha.
@wherewolf, can you explain the currency and flag then, I’ve mentioned them three times – if it’s about recognition then why try to live “separate” to that extent.
they don’t get anything from our tax money? Are they on the power grid?
@wherewolf
Orania is not geographically isolated, its culturally isolated.
“Children from Orania…interact with other Afrikaners in the country and yes they travel and meet on equal footing every other culture and race in this country” – IMPOSSIBLE to meet on an equal footing if you have been raised in a culturally exclusive environment. They will not be able to help themselves for bias.
“We have so many beautiful cultures, races and tribes in this country,” – finally you and I agree on something.
But the Oranians are consciously avoiding all of these great cultures.
And my interest in the children is simply that they are the ones who will be making decisions about the country in the future and I’d rather they didn’t have a world view based solely on life in Orania when they make those decisions.
The Currency, I thought I explained, it is a local currency it helps the town’s economy very well by allowing them to save together as a group. Alex you live in SA? Look I am just asking because you seem to know little or nothing about Afrikaner’s or our group identity if I can put it like that. The flag and the currency is objects of identity and pride and to lesser extent probably also objects of accomplishment and recognition. The little boy on the flag is rolling up his sleeve in order to work. Sorry I laughed at the tax remark it is just that there is an tax anomaly which they would probably sort out with government at some point in time, Zuma said he is going to visit Orania which will be great for them, I think all fits in apartheid SA not a single white politician or president visited, now they have played host for Madiba, Malema and Zuma said he will make a plan to visit, I’m holding thumbs. It means a lot to Orania when dignatory’s like these visit.
well the fact of the matter is you cannot have more than one currency in a country, plain and simple
I don’t live in SA right now wherewolf, but I have for 27 years of my life, and I understand the need to have a culture.
So what we should do is allow every culture to split off and have their own little society
You can take the europeans and give them their own area, give the asians their own area, the afrikaans, the different old world tribes etc…
that way we can all live in our own little utopias in the dark ages, because no one will take responsibility for major infrastructure – you can forget about the republic.
I look forward to the wars when one “culture” runs out of food or is devastated by a natural disaster.
simply, it’s old world thinking – you can maintain a culture in other ways, you don’t need to go and fence yourself off.
my prediction, Orania will not exist in two generations time in any capacity other than a little farming village (if it is anything more than that now)
There’s a lot of Afrikaaners in the country who are maintaining their culture (you just have to read the entire months stories from last month on Afrikaans to know this). 1,200 people are not a representation, nor the bastion of a “culture”
@Michelle : I like they of healthy interaction, but in order for this to happen you do need some security, If you are going to argue that someone growing up in a homogenous town is going to be somehow culturally dysfunctional, then really the 85% of the planet is dysfunctional, those Koreans live so homogenously you cant trust them with a calculator and Jap’s let’s lock em’ all up. No I believe that a homogenous upbringing in your own culture and language can in fact give you the self-worth or rather courage to face the world knowing who you and where you come from.
@ Alex :” I look forward to the wars when one “culture” runs out of food or is devastated by a natural disaster.” That statement smells like pure hatred it is unforgiving and vile, if that is how you feel, I’m sorry you where hurt, but Orania is not the one who hurt you. And then “Fencing in” I don’t know, because there is no fence, it is about us it is not about you. Last thing It does once again demonstrate the power of revolutionary action. You can jump up and down, scream write do whatever you want Orania wont stop they don’t need someone’s permission to live as they do, quite frankly it is none of your business!! I predict a cozy population in Orania of 18,000 by 2029 due to marginalization the slow reemergence of white poverty and demographic consolidation. And then you can both still scream, jump up and down, as a matter of fact you can do it from now till 2029 if you are that concerned about the children.
wherewolf, you can’t take one sentence I said and use it for your own good.
when you read it in context, you will see that I said if all cultures did that we would be going to the dark ages, that would be moving backwards.
So we should accept and respect them yet they choose to not respect or accept anything that isn’t steeped in Afrikaaner heritage? That logic is flawed.
My argument is not based on the fact that i can’t go there. My arguement is based on the fact they do not respect my rights yet i am being told i should respect theirs. Not only do they not respect my rights but they don’t respect the many different cultures that exist in SA. They can only enrich your understanding of this great country. There is no harm in sitting next to a coloured, black or indian and swopping stories.
“They don’t need anyone’s permission? It’s none of our business?” We are South African and unfortunately they are still a part of South Africa whether they like it or not. So i do have a right to ‘jump up and down’ as you so aptly put it.
If I may, as an Afrikaner, give some unique perspective as to how “they” think. Think of G.W. Bush era America: “There’s these people, and they’re dangerous. We must fear them, because they want to kill us. Let us pass these laws and we shall protect you, it’s us vs. them. Look! They’ve bombed us! We must get EVEN MORE STRICT!”
Afrikaners have a bit of a “us vs. the world” mindset. This is probably in most part due to some history: Came to the cape, settled, made farms. Aparently got their herds killed quite often by natives. “Aha!” You say, “natives didn’t believe in ownership of such things!” Yes, but you asked what it’s like from the Afrikaners’ perspective, and I’m giving it. Besides what would an African king do if you ate one of his cattle without asking?
Anyway, the English also took over the show and the Afrikaners didn’t feel they wanted to be there anymore. So they moved. This upset the native people, and they fought many battles over it. (Afrikaners to themselves “Everyone is trying to kill and steal from us”). Then it gets worse because they discover there be gold and diamonds up in them thar hills! And the now the English start a war against them. (Those damn rooinekke are out to get us AGAIN?!)
By the time the Afrikaners get their own state, they’ve solidly learned their lesson about letting their guards down. It’s not as convenient as calling Afrikaners “badass mastermind killers” by default. But I do believe they had their reasons.
I think it’s a mistake to say that there is no logic in the way that racial segregation works. It makes complete sense to have seperate beaches, benches and buses. Something that people don’t often latch onto is that if you were black in Apartheid you were less than human – the people who were really into the segregation thing did it not because they felt like being mean but because they couldn’t stand the idea of being near such filth.
As far as the Orania debate goes, let them have their own state or country. If they don’t want to be part of the greater consensus then tear up all the evil South African infrastructure and seal up the borders. They must supply their own internet, water, transport, food and so on.
I’m sorry if that seems harsh but I really but I really believe that you either play with the team or you play against the team. Orania doesn’t help to produce a South Africa that is inclusive and has every race living in harmony with every other race – it shows that some people still think they’re either better or need to be seperated from others.
Rob´s last blog ..Enough with the camera shake.